High AST / ALT after PCT?

[conductingchaos]

Just got bloodwork done after my 4 week PCT and my liver values are high. Wondering what might have caused this considering I ceased orals awhile ago. They were high after D-bol but came back down by mid cycle before I started Winny / Var. RBC and Hematocrit are also high. I plan to give blood but does that not go down naturally after ceasing AAS?

Notes: I know my pre cycle test levels were low. I'm going to bring these labs to my doc and try to get on TRT.

Pre Cycle:

29 yrs old
6 ft. 195 lbs 14-15% body fat
Testosterone: 255 ng/dL (LOW)
LH: 5.8 mIU/mL
FSH: 1.4 mIU/mL (LOW)
Estradiol: 13.0 pg/mL

Cycle:

625 mg / wk Test E / wks 1 - 17
40 mg D-bol ED / first 25 days
450 mg / wk Deca / wks 5 - 16
50 mg Winny ED / wks 14 - 19
50 mg Var ED / wks 14 - 19
500 mg / wk Test Prop / wks 18 - 19

250 IU HCG / E4D / wks 1 - 19
0.5 mg Anastrazole / EOD / wks 1 - 19
0.25 mg Caber - Mon/Thur - wks 5 - 19

ProSupps Guardian and Liv 52 taken for liver support anytime orals taken

end of cycle - 218 lbs / 12% body fat

PCT:

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50
30 mg Ostarine (MK-2866) ED
10 mg GW-501516 ED
3000 mg DAA ED

after PCT - 210 - 212 lbs

Week 4 bloodwork:

AST: 44 IU/L (HIGH)
ALT: 54 IU/L (HIGH)
Testosterone: 605 ng/dL (rechecked @ 715 ng/dL )
Free Test: 9.8 pg/mL
LH: 1.9 mIU/mL
FSH: 1.0 mIU/mL (LOW)
Estradiol: <5.0 pg/mL (LOW)

I suspect my first vial was underdosed due to those results and quickly got with another domestic source. D-bol and Anastrazole g2g.

Week 12 bloodwork:

RBC: 5.79 x10E6/uL (borderline HIGH)
Hematocrit: 50.8 % (borderline HIGH)
AST: 34 IU/L (normal)
ALT: 28 IU/L (normal)
Testosterone: 1819 ng/dL (HIGH)
Free Test: 49.2 pg/mL (HIGH)
LH: <0.2 mIU/mL (LOW)
FSH: <0.2 mIU/mL (LOW)
Estradiol: 43.5 pg/mL (HIGH)

Post PCT bloodwork:

RBC: 6.15 x10E6/uL (HIGH)
Hematocrit: 52.5 % (HIGH)
AST: 48 IU/L (HIGH)
ALT: 59 IU/L (HIGH)
Testosterone: 231 ng/dL (LOW)
LH: 2.4 mIU/mL
FSH: 1.4 mIU/mL (LOW)
Estradiol: 14.1 pg/mL

Could it be the SARMS or the PCT itself? do they affect liver values or is it still high from taking orals 4+ weeks ago?

 

[Kins]

Ostarine will lower your natural testosterone just like any AAS. Doesn't make any sense to use it in PCT. Ostarine can also raise you liver values, although those don't look bad at all. You should really post the reference range for each though because each lab has different reference ranges.

 

[Kins]

You don't need TRT. You need to do a proper PCT without using anabolics that will suppress your natural testosterone levels.

 

[conductingchaos]

You don't need TRT. You need to do a proper PCT without using anabolics that will suppress your natural testosterone levels.

You feel this way even though my levels before this cycle were at 255 ? I hadn't ran anything for almost 2 years prior to that.

 

[conductingchaos]

Ostarine will lower your natural testosterone just like any AAS. Doesn't make any sense to use it in PCT. Ostarine can also raise you liver values, although those don't look bad at all. You should really post the reference range for each though because each lab has different reference ranges.

I know it is slightly suppressive but I didn't think it was enough to hinder recovery.

LabCorp reference ranges:

RBC 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hematocrit 37.5-51.0 %
AST 0-40 IU/L
ALT 0-44 IU/L
Testosterone 348-1197 ng/dL
Free Test 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
LH 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

 

[Kins]

I know it is slightly suppressive but I didn't think it was enough to hinder recovery.

LabCorp reference ranges:

RBC 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hematocrit 37.5-51.0 %
AST 0-40 IU/L
ALT 0-44 IU/L
Testosterone 348-1197 ng/dL
Free Test 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
LH 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

It's not "slightly suppressive". It will shut you down, especially at 30mg dosage.

 

[Kins]

You feel this way even though my levels before this cycle were at 255 ? I hadn't ran anything for almost 2 years prior to that.

Yes I feel that way. Maybe get on some Clomid and Nolva for more than 4 weeks. Don't run any anabolics at the same time. Again, one blood test doesn't prove you have hypogonadism. I also suspect you have been doing your PCT for only 4 weeks and had been adding in anabolics that shut you down each time. That plus the one random blood test you had pre-cycle.

 

[conductingchaos]

Most PCT protocols I've seen are typically 4 weeks and yes that's all I've ever used. Everyone seems to have their own bro science on the matter, if you'd like to recommend one, I'm receptive to it. I don't fuck with AI's or HCG during PCT, I know I've seen certain HPTA restart protocols but it seems counter intuitive to supplement an LH mimicker when I'm trying to produce more. I understand my LH is still low so perhaps I could produce more test if the signal was being sent but even when it was within normal range I wasn't producing much (the same amount) so I feel I could be primary rather than secondary. I just know there's a huge difference in how I feel when my test is 600+ vs 200 and it's such a drastic difference that I feel ready to commit to TRT. I will wait to go back on, obviously my doctor will want to run his own tests or send me to an endocrinologist. I will be taking an international trip in July anyway so I've got some more time to try and recover though I really hate feeling like this with such low test and my girl is freaked out that I'm not all over her anymore. I guess that's what happens when you meet mid cycle.

 

[Kins]

Most PCT protocols I've seen are typically 4 weeks and yes that's all I've ever used. Everyone seems to have their own bro science on the matter, if you'd like to recommend one, I'm receptive to it. I don't fuck with AI's or HCG during PCT, I know I've seen certain HPTA restart protocols but it seems counter intuitive to supplement an LH mimicker when I'm trying to produce more. I understand my LH is still low so perhaps I could produce more test if the signal was being sent but even when it was within normal range I wasn't producing much (the same amount) so I feel I could be primary rather than secondary. I just know there's a huge difference in how I feel when my test is 600+ vs 200 and it's such a drastic difference that I feel ready to commit to TRT. I will wait to go back on, obviously my doctor will want to run his own tests or send me to an endocrinologist. I will be taking an international trip in July anyway so I've got some more time to try and recover though I really hate feeling like this with such low test and my girl is freaked out that I'm not all over her anymore. I guess that's what happens when you meet mid cycle.

I say stay on Clomid and Nolva for 8-12 weeks, and re-test yourself. Or get a referral to an endocrinologist. Don't go to your PCP for low testosterone. They really don't have a clue about that. Having to rely on TRT at 29 years old is unthinkable. The longer you stay on the more difficult it's going to be for you to recover. You really want to take this drastic a step at so young an age?. They aren't going to put you on much testosterone if they do. Only enough to get you "in range". On top of that at first you're are gonna get blood test after blood test, so forget about going on cycle for a while. Just think this out for a while. At such a young age I doubt they are gonna put you TRT anyway.

 

[Kins]

Oh and those AST and ALT levels are barely elevated. Nothing to worry yourself about.

 

[conductingchaos]

I say stay on Clomid and Nolva for 8-12 weeks, and re-test yourself. Or get a referral to an endocrinologist. Don't go to your PCP for low testosterone. They really don't have a clue about that. Having to rely on TRT at 29 years old is unthinkable. The longer you stay on the more difficult it's going to be for you to recover. You really want to take this drastic a step at so young an age?. They aren't going to put you on much testosterone if they do. Only enough to get you "in range". On top of that at first you're are gonna get blood test after blood test, so forget about going on cycle for a while. Just think this out for a while. At such a young age I doubt they are gonna put you TRT anyway.

Can you explain how Clomid / Nolva actually aid in recovery? I thought their main purpose was to prevent Estrogen rebound while letting your level build back to normal range.

I'm in the Army and I already spoke to our senior medic about it. He seems to think if I went to see the physician that I would probably get a prescription for test. I don't have an issue with taking exogenous test forever, maybe I don't fully understand the repercussions of that but I would only really worry about the collapse of civilization and no longer having a supply after the apocalypse.

 

[Kins]

I'm no expert on PCT, just trying to help you out and avoid self castration before you're even 30 years of age. Check out this article,

http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-low-testosterone-part-one/

There are links embedded in the article for parts 2 and 3 also.

Good luck with everything.

 

[conductingchaos]

accidentally posted twice. delete this one.

 

[conductingchaos]

I'm no expert on PCT, just trying to help you out and avoid self castration before you're even 30 years of age. Check out this article,

http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-low-testosterone-part-one/

There are links embedded in the article for parts 2 and 3 also.

Good luck with everything.

I ran another cycle (Gold Standard Raws Test E, Tren A, and Eq.. all spectacular). Came off, did two weeks of HCG to kick start my testicles, then Clomid therapy at 25 mg ED for 7 weeks before getting bloods. This time I recovered my testorone to a level that I'm pretty happy with.

Testosterone - 666 : range (264-916 ng/dL)
LH - 5.9 : range (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH - 2.5 : range (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
Estradiol - 21.2 : range (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)

Thank you for the advice. Now trying to have children in the future and it's amazing to know that I can recover. Still need to do a sperm test, haven't found any online lab I can order that from but I feel FSH is still in the low range.

If I stop taking Clomid, will my levels drop again or have I successfully restarted my brain / HPTA to sustain itself?

TLDR... Clomid deactivates estrogen receptors in the brain, making the body think it needs to produce more gonadotropin hormones (LH / FSH).