Hgh/t4

[Gman13]

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1981 Apr;96(4):475-9.

The effect of growth hormone on the plasma levels of T4, free-T4, T3, reverse T3 an TBG in hypopituitary patients.

Gács G, Bános C.


Abstract


The plasma concentrations of thyroxine (T4), free thyroxine (free-T4), triiodothyronine (T3), reverse triiodothyronine (rT3), TSH and thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG) were measured in 19 children suffering from idiopathic growth hormone deficiency. Blood was taken before and one month after growth hormone treatment. Ten patients were hypothyroid (group 1) and 9 were euthyroid (group 2). The basal T3 and rT3 levels correlated well with the T4 concentrations. Free-T4 levels were very low in all the hypothyroid patients and proved to be the most reliable index of TSH deficiency. TBG concentration was high in th hypopituitary patients regardless of their thyroid function. Following growth hormone treatment T4, free-T4 and rT3 levels fell in both groups. The T3 concentration rose in group 1 but no change was seen in group 2. There was a significant correlation between the changes of T4 and T3, such that the increase in T3 level was greatest in those with only a slight reduction of T4 concentration and no T3 increase was seen with more marked T4 decreases. The plasma TBG concentration is enhanced in growth hormone deficiency causing relatively high T4 values. Growth hormone treatment reduces T4 secretion and affects the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones resulting in an increase of T3 and a reduction of rT3 concentration.


PMID: 6782790 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Effect of thyroid hormone and growth hormone on recovery from hypothyroidism of epiphyseal growth plate cartilage and its adjacent bone.

Lewinson D, Harel Z, Shenzer P, Silbermann M, Hochberg Z.


Source

Laboratory of Musculoskeletal Research, Rappaport Family Institute for Research in the Medical Sciences, Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa.


Abstract


Hypothyroidism was induced in young female Sprague-Dawley rats by the addition of methimazole (0.67 mg/ml) to drinking water for a period of 7 weeks (7-14 weeks of age). The responses of the articular cartilage, epiphyseal growth plate cartilage, epiphyseal trabecular bone, and metaphyseal trabecular bone in the proximal tibia were assessed by structural parameters. In addition, replacement therapies were introduced for the last 2 weeks of the experimental period. These included 0.7 U/kg BW human GH (hGH), 15 micrograms/kg BW L-T4 (T4), and a combination of hGH and T4 at the same doses. In the hypothyroid rats, the width of epiphyseal growth plate cartilage decreased by 27%, that of articular cartilage by 35%, epiphyseal trabecular bone volume by 30%, and metaphyseal trabecular bone volume by 66% relative to those in age-matched control tissues. T4 treatment led to a full restoration of the epiphyseal trabecular bone and surpassed by 40% the control value. The magnitude of the articular cartilage and the epiphyseal trabecular bone volume returned to control values, while that of metaphyseal trabecular bone was 68% of control values. Treatment with hGH did not improve the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage or articular cartilage. It did restore epiphyseal trabecular bone to almost normal values, but metaphyseal trabecular bone improved to only a small though significant level (45% of control value). The combination of T4 and hGH resulted in an additional enlargement in the width of the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage and an increase in metaphyseal trabecular bone volume compared to those in the T4 group. Qualitative examinations indicated that it was only in the T4 and T4 plus hGH groups that the lowest chondrocytes in the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage resumed their normal hypertrophied size. These results suggest that the change in the hypothyroid state do not rely solely on the lack of pituitary GH synthesis and secretion, as replacement by exogenous GH did not restore normal epiphyseal growth plate cartilage morphology or its remodeling into metaphyseal trabecular bone. Treatment with T4 (which restored endogenous pituitary GH to 30% of control levels) results in full recovery of the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage morphology along with its associated metaphyseal trabecular bone. In addition, it can also be concluded that the decrease in epiphyseal trabecular bone volume observed in the hypothyroid animals was due solely to the GH-deficient state that accompanied hypothyroidism.

 

[Sciroxx]

Yes boss, GH decrease T4 secrition but enhance the conversion of T4 to T3. Some use to take T4 with GH to earn some metabolic effect, I personaly think it's completely unnecessary, one of the enhanced metabolic effects of GH is exactly the induction of more T3 (which is 4 times more active then T4) creation

 

[Nutpuncher]

I use t4 with hgh. Started at 100mcg and now at 150mcg first thing in morning.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/thyroid-hormone-growth-hormone/

 

[Sciroxx]

I'm familiar with this notion, I fear that it neglects the fact that the total T4 remains unchanged under high GH dosages, it's just the free T4 which decreases and free T3 which increases - thus (I speculate) adding exogenous T4 will not necessarily effective as it'll to most extent don't necessarily raise free T4 levels to offer more T4->T3 conversion, while suppressing much more the thyroid gland as well as the hypotalamous

furthermore I've seen lower IGF1 levels while adding T4 as a fact. I suspect that some of the suggestions on the article that more T4 potentiate the GH may be baseless, I haven't seen any science that support this, but I may be wrong, I may be wrong

May u check serum IGF1 levels with and without the T4 ?

 

[Sciroxx]

Just an article to support the fact that total T4 remains unchanged under GH treatment -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8606645

...Serum concentrations of free triiodothyronine and total triiodothyronine (T3) increased and free thyroxine (T4) decreased to a similar degree, independent of the mode of administration. However, total T4 concentrations were unchanged during both modes of treatment....

 

[Gman13]

Just an article to support the fact that total T4 remains unchanged under GH treatment -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8606645

...Serum concentrations of free triiodothyronine and total triiodothyronine (T3) increased and free thyroxine (T4) decreased to a similar degree, independent of the mode of administration. However, total T4 concentrations were unchanged during both modes of treatment....

So would u say just taking t3 instead of a t3/t4 blend would be sufficient Sciroxx.. Or would u just bypass it all together?

 

[Nutpuncher]

I'm familiar with this notion, I fear that it neglects the fact that the total T4 remains unchanged under high GH dosages, it's just the free T4 which decreases and free T3 which increases - thus (I speculate) adding exogenous T4 will not necessarily effective as it'll to most extent don't necessarily raise free T4 levels to offer more T4->T3 conversion, while suppressing much more the thyroid gland as well as the hypotalamous

furthermore I've seen lower IGF1 levels while adding T4 as a fact. I suspect that some of the suggestions on the article that more T4 potentiate the GH may be baseless, I haven't seen any science that support this, but I may be wrong, I may be wrong

May u check serum IGF1 levels with and without the T4 ?

In the name of science and helping us understand how T4 effects IGF1 levels...Yes, I am willing to get bloodwork, but the cost of each IGF-1 bloodwork is $72.49 - 15% coupon which is about $62 each with 15% off coupon from Private MD and the cost of me having to take time out of work to get it done. Any chance your willing to help with the cost? I am just kidding as its not your responsibility, but maybe we can work something out and I'll use Somastim. If your interested, please send me a PM.

So would u say just taking t3 instead of a t3/t4 blend would be sufficient Sciroxx.. Or would u just bypass it all together?

At first, I was going to take t3/t4 blend, but I went with t4 because of the article that I linked above and because my buddy that I consider a HGH Guru with evidence and published studies based knowledge. He also told me to take t4 before bed instead of 1st thing in the morning. I may try taking t4 before bed because I don't feel any stimulant effects anymore. However, when I run out of t4, I will try a Pharma T3 (20mcg)/T4 (100 mcg).

 

[Gman13]

In the name of science and helping us understand how T4 effects IGF1 levels...Yes, I am willing to get bloodwork, but the cost of each IGF-1 bloodwork is $72.49 - 15% coupon which is about $62 each with 15% off coupon from Private MD and the cost of me having to take time out of work to get it done. Any chance your willing to help with the cost? I am just kidding as its not your responsibility, but maybe we can work something out and I'll use Somastim. If your interested, please send me a PM.



At first, I was going to take t3/t4 blend, but I went with t4 because of the article that I linked above and because my buddy that I consider a HGH Guru with evidence and published studies based knowledge. He also told me to take t4 before bed instead of 1st thing in the morning. I may try taking t4 before bed because I don't feel any stimulant effects anymore. However, when I run out of t4, I will try a Pharma T3 (20mcg)/T4 (100 mcg).

I have t3 25mcg .. And I also have t3/t4 combo 15mcg/25mcg was taking t3 but felt like I was loosing to much muscle mass so I'm switching to the other.

 

[Sciroxx]

In the name of science and helping us understand how T4 effects IGF1 levels...Yes, I am willing to get bloodwork, but the cost of each IGF-1 bloodwork is $72.49 - 15% coupon which is about $62 each with 15% off coupon from Private MD and the cost of me having to take time out of work to get it done. Any chance your willing to help with the cost? I am just kidding as its not your responsibility, but maybe we can work something out and I'll use Somastim. If your interested, please send me a PM.



At first, I was going to take t3/t4 blend, but I went with t4 because of the article that I linked above and because my buddy that I consider a HGH Guru with evidence and published studies based knowledge. He also told me to take t4 before bed instead of 1st thing in the morning. I may try taking t4 before bed because I don't feel any stimulant effects anymore. However, when I run out of t4, I will try a Pharma T3 (20mcg)/T4 (100 mcg).

Of course, u always have my cooepration

 

[Sciroxx]

So would u say just taking t3 instead of a t3/t4 blend would be sufficient Sciroxx.. Or would u just bypass it all together?

I'm careful here with my words, but regular lean mess gains I would by pass it, I'll keep inquiring

 

[Sciroxx]

I simply can't get above the facts below and realize any anabolic mechanism behind T4 intake for mess gains with GH

GH lowers free T4 levels, and raise free T3 levels. It's raising metabolism this way. T3 is shown and proven to be catabolic with GH, of course with proper steroids and igf1 usage T3 may be crucial in cutting but of course no reason to add it on mess.

so now why would u add more T4 into the circulation by exogenous T4 ? it'll simply raise even more the T3 and will suppress heavily the thyroid gland and hypotalamous